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Donation point on concentrates
05-21-2011, 11:28 AM
Post: #1
Donation point on concentrates
There seems to be quite a fluctuation in the donation point with concentrates...I thought a discussion on donation point to concentrate type (BHO, shatter, pressed hash, loose kief, et cetera) would be appropriate.

For the love of the sport.
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05-21-2011, 11:40 AM (This post was last modified: 05-21-2011 11:46 AM by AVCS.)
Post: #2
RE: Donation point on concentrates
Just sat down from working on some extractions and saw this. Since I am elbows deep, I'll paste something I have posted before real quick regarding this a little while back, we were discussing Budder/oil/hash, ect;

The more refined, the lower the yield, the more expensive it gets. The first time I went to the Vancouver Dispensary and donated $25 for .25 grams of budder I felt wierd even buying a quarter of a gram of anything. When I went back for another .75 I felt like a real crackhead!

Heres what I posted regarding pricing and co-ops;

"This is going to be a long, roundabout answer to what seems like a simple question.
I have been following all the pricing debate threads and have all my own thoughts and opinions.

Those apart, lets say;

Lets say a gram of decent quality cannabis is worth $10 at retail. Lets say we get a 20% yield on an oil run (that would be in the higher percentages). So if that gram was processed into oil we would get .2 grams. If a gram of cannabis is worth $10, then simple math to get the value of a gram of oil would go .2(oil weigh) x 5(to equal one gram) x $10(value of a gram of cannabis, the amount required for .2 of oil) then a fair price would be $50 a gram retail.

As a consumer that has always seemed steep to me, Ill agree.

That is all only true if cannabis is worth $10 a gram.

As a processor, you need to think about other things. The cost of the 99% ISO, any special pyrex dishes or other custom glass processing tools, masks, and all the time, energy, labor, and love put into extracting out those beautiful oils.

I use dried cured buds to process oil. I do use the smaller less visually pleasing nugs, but your oil will not come out those golden colors if your thc gland to plant material ratio is not hi, particularly with ISO. High quality oil, wax, shatter, or budder is usually too expensive for the average consumer. It is usually limited to those with higher budgets or access to cannabis at less than $10 a gram."
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05-21-2011, 12:05 PM (This post was last modified: 05-21-2011 12:06 PM by greenspoon.)
Post: #3
RE: Donation point on concentrates
i think it depends on whether its trim made or actual bud 50/gram for total buds BHO, i can see way more potent then even the best trim BHO and remember we cant test compositins yet, so it should be based on the starting product

if im not back in ten minutes . . . . . call the police!
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05-21-2011, 12:15 PM
Post: #4
RE: Donation point on concentrates
(05-21-2011 11:40 AM)AVCS Wrote:  If a gram of cannabis is worth $10, then simple math to get the value of a gram of oil would go .2(oil weigh) x 5(to equal one gram) x $10(value of a gram of cannabis, the amount required for .2 of oil) then a fair price would be $50 a gram retail.

heh
.2 x 5 x 10 = 10

50/gram is market price.. it's not really based on cost of goods. people making oil/budder to resell are not buying their product retail at 10/gram.
With hash you're selling the product produced at each level of refinement.
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05-21-2011, 12:45 PM
Post: #5
RE: Donation point on concentrates
Let's not make this so difficult guys. Figuring out the donation point on concentrates is pretty easy:

We first consider a one-dimensional finite difference problem, in which we have a vector size N and must repeatedly update each element of X , with no element being updated in t+1 until its neighbors have been updated in q. A parallel algorithm for this problem creates N tasks, one for each point in X . The T task is thus given the value and is responsible for computing the values. Hence, at step t it must obtain the values and from tasks i-1 and i+1 . We specify this data transfer by defining channels from its left and right inports. Notice that the N tasks can execute independently, with the only constraint on execution order being the synchronization enforced by the receive operations. This synchronization ensures that no data value is updated at step t+1 until the data values in neighboring tasks have been updated at step t . Hence, execution is deterministic.
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05-21-2011, 12:50 PM (This post was last modified: 05-21-2011 02:42 PM by AVCS.)
Post: #6
RE: Donation point on concentrates
(05-21-2011 12:15 PM)mrwho Wrote:  
(05-21-2011 11:40 AM)AVCS Wrote:  If a gram of cannabis is worth $10, then simple math to get the value of a gram of oil would go .2(oil weigh) x 5(to equal one gram) x $10(value of a gram of cannabis, the amount required for .2 of oil) then a fair price would be $50 a gram retail.

heh
.2 x 5 x 10 = 10

50/gram is market price.. it's not really based on cost of goods. people making oil/budder to resell are not buying their product retail at 10/gram.
With hash you're selling the product produced at each level of refinement.

Stoner Math!!!! Big Grin

I cut and pasted some of that, I was going between a 10% and 20% return and slipped on the math. Thanks!

My point is even to a grower/producer cannabis has a value. It can take $50 (5g) of retail cannabis to make 1 gram of high grade oil. Processing is expensive.

One other often overlooked point. With solvent extractions it goes like this; you get out what you put in. You will not get high quality oil with trim or low quality bud. There is a lot of questionable oil out there that inexperienced consumers and producers think is high grade because they have yet to be exposed to truly refined extracts.

You have a much better chance of getting high grade bubble hash, but at a low yield, with sugar leaf or low quality bud.

SCJ, what is the donation price point on that finger hash from the Green Door? Very curious. Would love to see pics! That is a whole different cost equation......
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05-21-2011, 11:39 PM
Post: #7
RE: Donation point on concentrates
Uhhh, excuse me? Have you ever seen pot going for 10/gram straight from a grower or producer/processor of hashish? I'm pretty sure most people making hash (only basing this on everyone I've met) don't pay the extremely high mark up for small amounts of bud (1-5 grams for $10-50 dollars), but rather pay the realistic cost of bud ($0-30). My friends from California scoff at kif prices here, kif is just what falls off your amazing bud, not something worth making to them.
Here in Washington, where an oz goes for 100-300$, I question what you are asking. Here's what I'll give, what I will even think of donating:
Kif: Worth 5-20$/gram, kif is worth less then $10/gram for green and around $20/gram for white. Discounts should bring the half O to roughly 50-200$, and I never donate over 350 for the ounce.
Hash: Varies between 5-25/gram, hash can be as bad as kif or better then hash oil. I look for full melt, low micron bags for 15-20, and high micron, partial burns for 5-15. The half O on the best hash is roughly 250, and the O should go down to roughly 450. The worst hash is something I wont touch, and costs almost nothing. I recommend paying a premium on organic for hash, makes a difference in how much you cough (I think due to the compressing of heavy metals, etc.).
Hash oil: Varies between 10 (reclaim)- 120 a gram, I've gotten great values and poor values on everything from 20-100. I stopped paying over $100/gram after trying budder (great deal, I preferred it over the 8/gram kif available too). I don't donate over 20/gram for anything made with trim, and I try to avoid paying over 40 for anything that uses a conventional solvent (butane, acetone, ethanol). I donate 50-75/gram for oxygen or CO2 washes, because that is usually the fair donation.
And for bud, I never donate over 250 an ounce, not because some bud isn't worth more then that, but because I would prefer the half O of hash, or the 3/4 oz of kif or whatever.
So good deals include:
Kif for 5-15 gram, hash for 10-17, oil for 30-40, and I expect discounts when I pay over 100.
Deals I see all over the place but never take:
Kif for 25+ gram, hash for 30+, garbage trim oil for 40+, over-solvented or black hash oil (ever), and 'premium' buds for $350 an ounce.

Saying it takes a grower a gram of bud to make .2 of hash oil is silly, there are many other issues involved. If a grower can make his whole crop into oil and get rid of it in a day they might be much happier about that then having to find 150542198214421 patients who each want to try a half gram of his 'premium', and if a guy who buys pounds at a time from Mexico makes a bunch of oil he may be paying $.02 a gram. Don't try to look for justice, fairness, or a common denominator in the cannabis-game, the whole thing is exploitative and based on prohibition. Oil, while donated at $100/gram, still comes from a plant that, given a few acres of land, would produce kilos of the stuff.
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05-22-2011, 12:44 AM
Post: #8
RE: Donation point on concentrates
Its only worth what someone is willing to pay. If its too much people will stop buying it. If its priced right it will fly off the shelves.
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05-22-2011, 01:43 AM
Post: #9
RE: Donation point on concentrates
(05-21-2011 11:39 PM)PurpleHazeHashOil Wrote:  Uhhh, excuse me? Have you ever seen pot going for 10/gram straight from a grower or producer/processor of hashish? I'm pretty sure most people making hash (only basing this on everyone I've met) don't pay the extremely high mark up for small amounts of bud (1-5 grams for $10-50 dollars), but rather pay the realistic cost of bud ($0-30). My friends from California scoff at kif prices here, kif is just what falls off your amazing bud, not something worth making to them.
Here in Washington, where an oz goes for 100-300$, I question what you are asking. Here's what I'll give, what I will even think of donating:
Kif: Worth 5-20$/gram, kif is worth less then $10/gram for green and around $20/gram for white. Discounts should bring the half O to roughly 50-200$, and I never donate over 350 for the ounce.
Hash: Varies between 5-25/gram, hash can be as bad as kif or better then hash oil. I look for full melt, low micron bags for 15-20, and high micron, partial burns for 5-15. The half O on the best hash is roughly 250, and the O should go down to roughly 450. The worst hash is something I wont touch, and costs almost nothing. I recommend paying a premium on organic for hash, makes a difference in how much you cough (I think due to the compressing of heavy metals, etc.).
Hash oil: Varies between 10 (reclaim)- 120 a gram, I've gotten great values and poor values on everything from 20-100. I stopped paying over $100/gram after trying budder (great deal, I preferred it over the 8/gram kif available too). I don't donate over 20/gram for anything made with trim, and I try to avoid paying over 40 for anything that uses a conventional solvent (butane, acetone, ethanol). I donate 50-75/gram for oxygen or CO2 washes, because that is usually the fair donation.
And for bud, I never donate over 250 an ounce, not because some bud isn't worth more then that, but because I would prefer the half O of hash, or the 3/4 oz of kif or whatever.
So good deals include:
Kif for 5-15 gram, hash for 10-17, oil for 30-40, and I expect discounts when I pay over 100.
Deals I see all over the place but never take:
Kif for 25+ gram, hash for 30+, garbage trim oil for 40+, over-solvented or black hash oil (ever), and 'premium' buds for $350 an ounce.

Saying it takes a grower a gram of bud to make .2 of hash oil is silly, there are many other issues involved. If a grower can make his whole crop into oil and get rid of it in a day they might be much happier about that then having to find 150542198214421 patients who each want to try a half gram of his 'premium', and if a guy who buys pounds at a time from Mexico makes a bunch of oil he may be paying $.02 a gram. Don't try to look for justice, fairness, or a common denominator in the cannabis-game, the whole thing is exploitative and based on prohibition. Oil, while donated at $100/gram, still comes from a plant that, given a few acres of land, would produce kilos of the stuff.

OK, you are correct, if it was not for prohibition, cannabis would not be $10 gram. That is very true. With todays realities, I based my opinion on the price of oil and hash on that, if I am way off base, I am sorry.

I think we will both agree that is wrong, but I do think saying high grade cannabis goes for $10 a gram at current market value is a valid statement;

I see cannabis going from growers to consumers from anywhere in the $6-15 range from grower to buyer. (Farmers market, craigslist, co-ops, ect, am I crazy?)

When I wrote this, I was talking about the market value of high grade extractions. Period. Not dirty over solvented oil or green hash. Bad cannabis products are not worth a penny, and there are many of them out there.

I was hoping to offer up some honest info from experience.

If it does not take 1 gram o f high grade bud to make .1-.2g of oil, what does it take?

How much cannabis does it take to make 1 gram of high grade oil? How about full bubble hash?
I only know what it takes me, and what my return is.

How much is your high grade oil and full bubble hash worth, at retail, in your opinion? Very curious...

I give lots away for free, and plenty to people in need, that does not mean it is worthless (I hope!).
That is why I was asking about the finger hash from Green Door. This is not a product I have seen offered to patients in WA previously.
Finger hash is not about what your high quality cannabis yielded, but how much time, access, hard work and love you put into the end product, and whether or not you want to share the spoils just for financial gain.

let me know what you think, very curious...

And of course, today of all days, God is right! It is only worth what people will pay!
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05-22-2011, 05:53 AM
Post: #10
RE: Donation point on concentrates
"it's only worth what someone will pay for it". <<<< that statement holds true for everything in life.

Personally I ask $20/g for anything bubble oriented, It doesnt really matter to me what I got it for because I think $20/g is what its worth, unless its terrible in which case I wouldnt even bother with it.

I ask $40/g for the BHO mixxes, which are made from shake. I ask $40/g because thats what its worth to me and if I cant get that then I usually just keep it for myself because thats what I smoke these days.


On the strain specific BHO, I use 1 OZ of topshelf bud, which in Terra Canna land has a rough value of $250/oz. general oil yield on those top shelf ounces varies by type, but I can usually count on 4 grams of top shelf whipped BHO from 1 oz of bud (I usually end up keeping anything left after 4g for testing and personal consumption usually its less than a gram). I ask $60/g for strain specific ones, so $60 x 4g oil = $240. Technically I make a bit less on the oil than just straight vege matter, but for me its all about offering people different methods, Im not terribly concerned about making "more" just because its "oil".

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